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Engaging With Teens Who Hold Opposing Viewpoints | Ep. 164

Engaging With Teens Who Hold Opposing Viewpoints | Ep. 164

by | Oct 15, 2024 | Personal Development, Podcast, Support Groups

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Navigating Differences: How to Connect with Teens Who Hold Opposing Views

One of the trickiest aspects of mentoring and supporting teens is handling conversations when they express opinions that clash with your own.

Whether it’s on hot-button topics like politics, religion, or substance use, it can be challenging to remain calm and constructive. But remember, these moments are opportunities to foster growth and build stronger connections.

Key Question

How do I interact with teens who believe differently than me?

Topics Where Teens Might Disagree:
  • Politics: Different views on leadership, policies, or social justice.
  • Religion: Varying beliefs or spiritual practices.
  • Weed/Substance Use: Attitudes towards recreational substances, legalization, or personal experience.
Key Things to Keep in Mind:
  • Practice Active Listening
    Listen without judgment and ask thoughtful questions. Sometimes teens may just want a reaction, so it’s important to pause and breathe before you respond. Really tune in to what they’re saying—it’s not about agreeing, it’s about hearing them out.
  • Show Respect and Empathy
    You don’t have to agree with them to acknowledge their perspective. Phrases like “I can see how you would feel that way” can go a long way in showing that you value their viewpoint. Finding common ground where you can can help bridge the gap.
  • Show Up Consistently
    Let teens know that your relationship doesn’t hinge on agreeing on every issue. Being a reliable and steady presence is more valuable than “winning” a debate.

Perspective Shift

We’re not raising teens to mirror us!

Teens are developing their own ideas and worldviews. Encourage them to ask questions, do their own research, and think critically—even if that means they come to different conclusions than you.

You’re modeling healthy dialogue!

When you engage respectfully in tough conversations, you’re showing them how to have these discussions in the future. This is an incredible life skill, so remember—you’re making a difference even when it feels tough.

Focus on Understanding, Not Winning

The goal isn’t to change their mind or “win” the argument. It’s to maintain the relationship, build trust, and demonstrate what respectful dialogue looks like.

TL Tips & Takeaways:

Share, Don’t Preach:

If the moment is right and they ask for your opinion, share your experience, but avoid framing your view as the ultimate truth. Teens appreciate authenticity, not lectures.

It’s Okay to Disagree:

Not every conversation needs a resolution. A respectful “agree to disagree” can keep the dialogue open for the future.

Create a Safe Space:

Make sure teens feel safe to express themselves without the fear of being rejected or criticized. Knowing they won’t be judged makes all the difference in keeping the lines of communication open.

Tune in and learn how to handle these challenging conversations with confidence and care! Let’s help teens grow into thoughtful, independent adults while staying connected through respectful communication.

Subscribe now to get more tips and insights on mentoring teens!

Read Episode Transcript
Caleb Hatchett (00:13)
Welcome to Teen Life podcast, where we’re going to discuss questions that trusted adults like you are asking.

Today’s question is: How do I interact with teens who believe differently than me? There’s a lot of topics where teens might disagree. Politics, religion, even like weed slash substance abuse. There’s a lot of topics that there’s a lot of.

Karlie Duke (01:09)
if they should do their homework.

Caleb Hatchett (01:11)
If the yeah, yes, I think teens are just always looking for ways to get in an argument or disagree with someone. So how do you interact with people who do disagree with you? And there’s some important important things we want you to keep in mind kind of as we have this conversation, even to some tips that will kind of hope, hopefully guide this conversation. So practice active listening.

Listen without judgment and ask questions. This is important. They might just trying. They might just be trying to get a reaction from you. Okay. Like with the teens, I interact with, it’s just like adult or other student. It’s like, you’re just, do you really believe this? Like you’re just saying this to get, to draw me off sides. So just take a deep breath. Okay. Take a deep breath before responding.

Karlie Duke (01:45)
Mm -hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (02:01)
Like, it’s a, it’ll be okay. Like, who even knows? Yes. Yes.

Tobin Hodges (02:04)
If they’re getting their phone out, they’re absolutely trying to get a reaction from you.

Karlie Duke (02:09)
Well, let me say too, parents are a little different because you are like in charge of raising this human being. So let me say that. But like other roles, you do have an influence, but like it is not your job to police everything that they believe or to like lecture them on that. So like that’s where like you’re saying, Caleb, like active listening is key.

Caleb Hatchett (02:19)
Yeah.

Karlie Duke (02:38)
Ask questions, keep them talking, but it’s not necessarily your job to like sit there and be like, actually, here’s where you’re wrong. Blah, blah, blah. Let me get out my PowerPoint presentation on why this opinion is better. so start with listening.

Caleb Hatchett (02:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think like especially when dealing with teens like questions go such so so much further than trying to prove your own point because

Karlie Duke (03:02)
Mm

Caleb Hatchett (03:05)
A, they’re probably not listening. Like I know like even still as an adult, like a lot of times if I’m in a, if I’m in a conflict with someone, I’m not listening. I’m just trying to think of what I’m saying next. Right. And so like, if you can push back on like, Hey, why, why did you say that? Or like, why, like, where did you get that from? Why do you believe that? like having to getting them to think out their own answer to what they believe. I promise we’ll go further than you being like, here’s why you’re wrong.

Karlie Duke (03:16)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (03:17)
That’s a point.

Karlie Duke (03:34)
Well, you just said something important to Caleb, which is like they’re probably thinking of what they’re going to say. But so how many times when I’m talking to a teenager and they’re talking to me, am I not actually listening because I’m trying to think of how I can get them to see my side, what I’m going to say, all of that stuff. like knowing that too about yourself, if you’re in discussions, especially maybe about topics that could be a little more controversial.

Caleb Hatchett (03:50)
Yeah. Yeah.

Karlie Duke (04:02)
like knowing like, hey, I need to set that aside for a second and like listen and be locked in on them and I can think about what I’m going to say after that.

Caleb Hatchett (04:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (04:13)
Yeah, and I think it needs to be said that especially if you’re an adult talking to a teen.

There’s a very, very, very, very small chance you’re going to convince them to join your side and that you’re right when they’re a teenager. And I mean, it could be anything. We could be talking about like, you know, I think Reese’s peanut butter cups are the greatest candy ever. And they think Snickers and like, you’re not going to, you’re not going to convince them like with facts and thought out questions and stuff. The way, so the thing about the stuff and I, and I think with religion, especially like this is where I see this is that if your goal is to, for them to see the same way that you do and you’re showing them that by aggressive questioning and you know, calling out their beliefs and their thoughts, all you’re doing is pushing the goal further, further back.

in my opinion, because what you need to be happening is that you’re showing that you respect what they’re saying and you’re showing them empathy, even if you are disagreeing with them. Because what’s going to happen is down the road, if me and Caleb are arguing about our favorite chocolate snacks, he he’s gonna be like, man, like

Karlie Duke (05:16)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (05:34)
that conversation with Tobin, like he really was, was really in the Reese’s, but he also didn’t, you know, jump on me about this. Maybe, maybe that’s the side I need to be on and stuff like that. It’s like, it’s just, if you’re showing them that you can, that they can have a voice and have a, you know, an opinion, but also be different from them. think that that in the long run goes a lot further than you trying to win a debate or win an argument with them, especially online, online, especially.

Karlie Duke (05:58)
Mm

Yes.

Caleb Hatchett (06:02)
Yeah. So like practice active listening and then kind of even what you just said to him, like show respect and empathy. And I think like those two kind of go together. I think people know you’re not listening to them. And like, I, even if you hear them out and be like, man, I hear you and I hear that side, it goes such a long way into, into a kind of helping deescalate an intense conversation because it’s less like yelling at each other and more like let’s just have a conversation because I hear what you’re saying and then here’s what I’m saying like I think it just kind of changes the environment of the conversation and yeah like I don’t think you’re gonna win anyone over by no matter how great your facts are by yelling or just stating the facts like it’s it’s a conversation and there’s two sides and show the other side the respect and empathy the empathy that you know they deserve as a human

Karlie Duke (06:39)
Hmm.

Well, I think too, when you are having a discussion where maybe you disagree about something, whether it’s big or small, serious or not, so often you’re actually more in line than you probably think. And so like trying to find the common ground, that doesn’t mean that you have to agree. I think it’s easy to say like, hey, I can see how you would feel that way. My husband loves to have these big existential conversations where I’m like this.

Just makes me sometimes want to beat my head against the wall. But so often we are very different and we will like not argue, but come at it and be like, no, we disagree, we disagree. And then when we like actually sit down and be like, okay, but what do you actually think about that and explaining it and not taking such a hard stance? We’ll actually realize like, no, we’re actually very close in that just the way we were communicating it is very different or how we would do it is different, but we want the same outcome.

And so sometimes like trying to, that’s where those questions come in mind. That’s where actually listening and active listening where you’re like repeating back here’s what I’m hearing you say. Is that correct? Like making sure you’re clarifying that you might actually find some common ground. But I think most importantly, if you’re an adult with a teenager in life, make sure you show up consistently and let them know your relationship is more important than agreeing on every issue.

Caleb Hatchett (07:59)
Mm -mm.

Karlie Duke (08:17)
or even being on the same page or maybe even understanding. Like maybe you’re like, I just really don’t understand this, but I still care about you. I’m still going to teach you and treat you fairly, all of that kind of stuff. But I do think, y ‘all mentioned social media. And so before we kind of go further, especially right now, and especially at the cultural turning point, whatever that we are at.

Tobin Hodges (08:19)
Mm

Karlie Duke (08:47)
in our country, like, please be careful. I’ll link it. We did an episode two on this on maybe how to post appropriately on social media. Didn’t we? Like last year maybe. But know that you, if you’re an adult, there are students who follow you and who can see your stuff and just be aware of that as you’re posting things.

Caleb Hatchett (08:59)
think so.

Karlie Duke (09:13)
anything that you say online and if they question you about it in person, you’re like, man, I don’t want to have that conversation in person. Then maybe that’s also not something that we should be starting online or posting opinions about online. If you wouldn’t be willing to say it to the students in your life or people in your life in person.

Super fun. But I do want to, as kind of a shift, something to think about. Because sometimes I think, we think, why can’t this teenager just agree with me? Why can’t they just do what I say? However, we do not want to raise teenagers who just agree with everything we say. We don’t, that’s not the kind of adults that you want. We want them to ask questions. We want them to do research. We want them to form their own opinions. So this is…

very much a developmental thing that is healthy. It is normal. They should be questioning things. They should be pushing back on you. I saw something one time that was a good perspective too that like say, maybe I’ve mentioned this on the podcast, but I’m going to say it again anyways. If you are on a roller coaster and they put down the big seatbelt strap, what is the first thing you do probably? You check it.

Caleb Hatchett (10:31)
Yeah. Yep.

Karlie Duke (10:31)
Yeah, you push back on it. And sometimes I think the same is true for teenagers. If they are in a healthy place and somewhere where they feel like they can have opinions, the first thing they’re going to do sometimes is check that. They’re going to check that relationship. They’re going to check that belief system. And you might have a teenager that you’re like, we’ve been loving spaghetti at our house for forever. And now suddenly you have all these opinions about how you can’t have gluten. Like what is happening or I had friends in high school who decided they were going to go vegan and like were very hardcore about it out of nowhere. And some of that is like, they’re trying to find their place or trying to find their identity and they’re trying to check like, are we still going to be good if I have a different opinion? And so kind of a perspective change of that is something that is good and healthy, but we need to make sure that we’re helping them do that in an appropriate way at the same time.

Caleb Hatchett (11:27)
Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (11:30)
think especially whenever you get into like stuff that’s driven, like that they’re seeing on like social media and stuff like that, like you kind of have to remind yourself, and this is true for adults too, but like we, everything that we see is curated in not the full scope of what we’re doing ever. And that’s including like,

Caleb Hatchett (11:31)
I also think…

Tobin Hodges (11:54)
what we’re we’re digesting through social media through internet, whatever it may be. Like it’s not a, you know, it wasn’t an arguments thing, but my son had an example this a few weeks ago of, I let him get a Twitter account because he likes to follow like the, you know, NBA and stuff like that. And I said, as long as you’re not posting anything, I don’t care. You know, I’m going to be checking who you’re following that kind of thing. And he sent me a Twitter link the other day of just a fear mongering, like,

Karlie Duke (12:13)
Mm

Tobin Hodges (12:23)
we’re about to go to World War III thing. it was like, and like, even if that’s true, like he was scared about it. He said to me, the middle of the school day. And it’s like, that’s the kind of stuff that we have to remind ourselves is that what they are getting on their devices may not be the full true scope of what’s actually happening. And that in a scene goes for adults too, of like,

Karlie Duke (12:41)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (12:45)
Hey, before we’re before we’re going to like dig our heels in and in and argue things like one, you need to probably make sure you’re having the full scope of what is going on and to like remind yourself they might not have that. And also you may not be able to tell them that right now. You may have to come in a later date whenever they’re at a, at a non

Karlie Duke (13:04)
Mm

Tobin Hodges (13:06)
confrontational place as well. And so just remind yourself that. I think I see that a lot with drug conversations, like with weed and substances and stuff like that about

You know, there is some truth to like our generation, you know, the generations before us were a little bit more hesitant and it was a lot scarier. And now it seems like what technology and science things are shifting. so the generations below me are thinking very differently on substances than we did, which is kind of funny because like, it’s not funny, but the substances that they, they are more okay with are the stuff that the generations before us were not okay with and the substance that they are not okay.

with the ones that we abused for years, know, with alcohol and drug and cigarettes and stuff like that. And so it’s just everything has.

Karlie Duke (13:52)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (13:55)
their side. It’s just a matter of like, we don’t want what you don’t want most importantly, is to ever shut off a connection with a teenager that might need it later on. And like that, then that means that you may just not have to agree. And you may have to like, let something something’s go. Because eventually that team’s probably going to need you for something and you can’t have a block of well, I can’t talk to that person because he he stood his ground on this thing and I don’t feel comfortable with him or her and that kind of thing. So

Karlie Duke (14:04)
Yeah, totally.

Mm

Caleb Hatchett (14:22)
Yeah. And I mean, it’s probably even less just like, I can’t go to them because they believe that. But it’s like, man, I can’t, I can’t go to this guy because of, how he handled that situation of how I felt attacked. And, you know, students never going to go to somebody who feels like they have to be on the defense around.

Karlie Duke (14:34)
Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (14:42)
for sure.

Caleb Hatchett (14:42)
And so like in your conversations, like, and that goes back to like showing up consistently, like, right. Of like making sure that they know, like you are always going to be there. But then like also putting that into perspective of if you’re in those conversations, like, like, which ma what matters more, what matters more my relationship with this student and being able to be there and make sure that they know that I’m always going to be there or halfway winning an argument.

Karlie Duke (15:00)
Mm -hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (15:10)
And I think too, along with our perspective ship, it’s perspective shift is to focus on understanding and not winning. and this was such like, I, I remember being a teenager and like half the time, like I’m in an argument. I don’t even know what I’m saying is what I believe, but I want to win. Like I, and I’m going to say anything to win that conversation or win that argument. And so.

Karlie Duke (15:31)
Mm -hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (15:39)
like remember the goal ultimately is to maintain the relationship and not to win. And so I find myself falling into that trap even as an adult is like evaluating myself of being like, what, what am I even like separate myself from this for a second and be like, what am I even saying? Like, is this a hill that I’m willing to die on? And then I think like, it goes back to like having just a conversation.

Even like with what Tobin said about like, yes, the nougatie crunch of a Snickers is great. That doesn’t, that doesn’t take away from the fact that I could, that the peanut butter cup is a great candy too. You know, like I think there’s a lot of times you can both be arguing and both be right in your own way. And if you’re arguing, instead of having a conversation, you’re never going to realize that. And so just remember ultimately bottom line is the goal is to maintain the relationship is not to win the argument.

Karlie Duke (16:15)
hahahaha

Tobin Hodges (16:32)
So one thing that we see a lot in teen life groups is…

As a facilitator we get asked questions about like well don’t you do this or don’t you believe in this kind of thing in one one way to kind of diffuse, I don’t know if diffuse is the right word, but just to respectfully handle that because like I don’t ever want teens or adults to feel like they can’t be who they are and be true to themselves But there’s a way to do that without being combative and like so if I ever get asked about you know my religious preference or things that we shouldn’t initially be talking about in group

Karlie Duke (16:54)
Mm

Caleb Hatchett (16:54)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (17:05)
I’ll preface it by saying, look, this is how I am, or this is how I was raised, or this is what I believe. But I also want to respect everybody around and what they’re feeling and going through, what they believe. And if we want to have a deeper conversation about that, we can talk outside of group, you know, and that can, that can be applied in any setting really is like, Hey, this is what I believe. And I’m not saying I’m right. You’re right. I’m wrong. You’re wrong. That kind of thing. But this is where I’m coming from. And that kind of gives you

Karlie Duke (17:31)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (17:35)
an instance of one- it lets you still stay true to what you believe and what you think, but it also gives them a chance to know that like, you may be on this side, but you’re not necessarily against them. that kind of works in their favor.

Caleb Hatchett (17:49)
Yeah. Yeah.

Karlie Duke (17:50)
Yeah. When I think with that, it’s okay to say like, Hey, let’s just agree to disagree in a respectful way. So like, if you are having a conversation with a student at some point, there might reach a point if neither one of you are going to change your opinions where it’s not healthy anymore, it’s not a good discussion and you’ve both just dug your heels in. It’s okay to be like, Hey, I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere anymore. Let’s just agree to disagree and when you do that you’re modeling for them. We can have really difficult conversations and we can disagree and we can walk away and still be friends or we can walk away and still respect each other and I’m still gonna show up for your class. I’m still gonna show up as a leader and still respect you and have a good relationship with you and that is really powerful that you get to show them that. So I think sometimes instead of like you are saying getting so caught up in lecturing or proving your point or trying to win, being like, hey, like we’re going to be done with this conversation right now. If you want to, let’s come back to it in a few days if you feel strongly about it, but not just always getting to the point where you both agree or even if they might never say, I can see your point, but be the adult and be a bigger person and you can kind of find some common ground with them. our kind of final tip or takeaway

Tobin Hodges (19:09)
Yeah, that’s good.

Karlie Duke (19:13)
is creating a safe space. So making sure that teens do feel like they can express themselves without fear, rejection, criticism, all of that. And sometimes what that might mean too, especially in a school or group setting where you have multiple students around, is if a student starts bringing something up that’s controversial, you might need to stop them and be like, hey, that’s not a conversation that we’re going to have right now. Can I talk to you after?

Tobin Hodges (19:39)
Mm

Karlie Duke (19:42)
Can I take you to coffee? Can we go get a Sonic drink? Can you show up to class a few minutes early and I’ll bring you lunch or something like that where you’re not taking the whole group down this rabbit hole that doesn’t need to happen or a whole classroom that we don’t need to get into this discussion because we have other things to do, but then creating a safe space in another way where they can share that and not feel rejected.

Caleb Hatchett (20:07)
Yeah, and making them feel heard.

Tobin Hodges (20:08)
Yeah, avoiding – avoiding mob mentality too, on both sides. of you don’t need some, you don’t need a bunch of people to join your side and then attack somebody and vice versa. You don’t need to be attacked by a bunch of teenagers at the same time. Like that’s not fun for anybody. so yeah, like that’s, yeah, avoiding them, like avoiding the group discussions for intense things, because like, we also don’t know what kind of trigger some of this stuff is for people. Like it can be whatever, like any, any conversation could be triggering for people that are going through specific hurts and stuff from these kinds of discussions. So, yeah.

Karlie Duke (20:20)
Yeah.

Caleb Hatchett (20:20)
Ha ha ha!

Karlie Duke (20:30)
Mm

Yeah. All right. Well, we’re also next time going to do an episode that kind of talks about where do teens get their information. So we kind of previewed that a little bit because they go hand in hand, but we’ll talk more about like, where are they getting their information and how can we help them find accurate information about things that they care about? So subscribe on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcast so that you don’t miss that episode and a future ones. And then please send us your questions.

You can reach out on social media. can email us at podcast@teenlife.ngo to submit any questions that you want us to discuss and we’ll see you next time.

Links & Resources:

Karlie Duke
Karlie Duke

Director of Communications

Tobin Hodges
Tobin Hodges

Program Director

Caleb Hatchett

Caleb Hatchett

Podcast Host

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Signs of School Anxiety & How to Help | Ep. 163

Signs of School Anxiety & How to Help | Ep. 163

by | Oct 8, 2024 | Anxiety, Mental Health, Podcast, School

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

School Anxiety: What It Looks Like and How to Help Teens Overcome It

Join us for a deeper look at the complex world of school anxiety and explore what it looks like in teens. Many caring adults may see changes in behavior but struggle to understand the root cause. Today, we’re breaking down common signs of anxiety at school, practical ways to support teens, and how to shift your perspective so you can help them navigate these tough moments with confidence.

Key Question

What Does Anxiety Look Like at School?

What to Look Out For

You might notice your teen avoiding school or withdrawing from activities they once enjoyed.

These behaviors can be signals of school anxiety:

  • Not wanting to go to school – Consistent resistance to attending school or frequent complaints without a clear reason.
  • Isolation – Your teen may prefer to be alone rather than interacting with friends or participating in activities.
  • Complaining about physical symptoms – Stomach aches, headaches, or other vague symptoms that happen regularly before school.
  • Not bringing back schoolwork – Missing assignments or unfinished projects can sometimes be a sign of emotional overwhelm, not just laziness.
  • Closed-off body language – Watch for hunched shoulders, crossed arms, or avoiding eye contact.

A Note for Adults: Role Modeling a Healthy Approach to Anxiety

Teens often look to the adults in their lives to understand how to handle emotions. If you’re feeling anxious, it can be helpful to verbalize your thought process. For example, you might say: “I’m having a tough day. I’m going to take a 5-minute break to regroup and then we can continue!”

This shows teens that it’s okay to feel anxious, but also that there are ways to cope and move forward.

Perspective Shift

Expect Difficult Things

Anxiety is a normal part of life, and we can expect teens to do hard things. Instead of stepping in to rescue them, believe in their ability to face challenges and grow. When we constantly step in, it unintentionally sends the message that we don’t believe they can handle it.

  • Validate their feelings: Acknowledge their anxiety without promising that everything will be easy or fun.
  • Encourage resilience: It’s okay to push them to keep going, even when it feels hard. Coddling can send the wrong message.

TL Tips & Takeaways:

Point Out the Good:

Highlight the brave things you see them doing, even if they seem small.

Ask for Positives:

Encourage them to list two good things in their life right now to shift focus from anxious thoughts.

Resources for Parents:

If you have a teen who doesn’t want to go to school, keep scrolling down for a related episode that dives deeper into school refusal and what you can do about it.

Stay tuned for more episodes where we tackle the tough topics that help you support and mentor the teens in your life.

Remember, you are a powerful influence in a teen’s life!

Read Episode Transcript

Tobin Hodges (00:00)
What does anxiety look like at school? if you are like me and you are in education or have a, students in education, I have a high schooler. I see this from all sides of the coin. It seems like, on a daily basis. So today we’re going to answer that question. What does it look like at school? What does it look like for students? What does it look like for staff members? What does it look like for you as a parent?

We’re gonna kind of try to cover all bases and just as a reminder these are this is like our new podcast format We are gonna answer questions and if you have any please please please send us some because we would love to answer questions from our listeners To help you with the things that you need help with because that’s what we are here for so today. Let’s start off with this What do you guys from your- from y’all’s- perspective as former students as Karlie you have kids that you have two kids that have started school now and you work with school staff and Caleb you work with school staff as well. What do you all see? What does it look like for you whenever you see anxiety in school?

Karlie Duke (00:59)
Well, do have, I mean, he’s little, so he’s not a teenager. But last year we dealt with some of this with my son. mean, he loved school, but if there was a sub, he would panic. Like he would fixate on it before we left for school. He would talk about it like…

She’s not going to be there. She’s not going to be there. Well, who is going to be there? Well, what if y ‘all forget me at school? What if I’m not like he would go run through all these what ifs he would go to the nurse and like complain about like he was coughing or having trouble breathing or and like we kind of got to a point where like, is he really because the nurse was like, he seemed fine to me or was that his anxiety coming out of when he would feel anxious thoughts or feelings?

that he’d be like, I need to go to the nurse. And so that’s kind of what we’ve seen and walked through with my son. He’s doing much better this year, which is great, but it’s really hard to sit there and kind of be like, as someone who doesn’t struggle with anxiety as much, be like, come on, like suck it up, go to school. It’s not that big of a deal. You’re going to have fun. have all these friends, but like,

Caleb Hatchett (02:12)
Yeah.

Karlie Duke (02:16)
We have to sit in that moment and make them feel heard also without coddling them being like, sure, you don’t have to go to school today because there’s a sub. And so finding that balance and I know we’re going to talk about that some more too, but.

Caleb Hatchett (02:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (02:22)
Yeah.

Interesting- yeah that’s like usually kids are like sweet sub I get to watch a video or do easy worksheets but yeah that’s that’s interesting okay what about you

Caleb Hatchett (02:28)
I think.

Karlie Duke (02:35)
Yeah, the routine was tough.

Caleb Hatchett (02:36)
I think for me it’s like, especially since the school year started up and I’ve interacted with my students in the youth group and stuff like that, just like, hey, how’s school going? It’s interesting to me because like, I know I was a little weird. I always enjoyed going back to school a little bit, you know, like after summer, things like that. I’m like, man, I miss my friends. I even miss it. Like a few teachers, like just like structure and being able to like…

do things and like know I know what to expect and now it’s just kids don’t like school and it’s just kind of like it tends to be the answer I get like how school okay and I think like too what I’ve realized is like a

Karlie Duke (03:04)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah

Caleb Hatchett (03:20)
School is an anxious place Like it just is I mean like students you’re getting graded on things like you’re getting literal feedback- a numerical grade- on how well you’re doing or not like that’s stressful that can cause anxiety I mean the whole like social situation Everything like it’s just like it’s an anxious place and so like having grace and I don’t know like it’s probably not even a thing where like every student experiences anxiety going to school every single day, but I would

Almost promise you every student has felt anxiety going to school whether it’s about a test whether it’s about a substitute teacher. Asking a girl out During you know lunch period like i’m sure like every this is someone like Everybody’s experiencing anxiety at school just because it’s an anxious place of just of a lot of of things to be anxious about so

Tobin Hodges (04:13)
Yeah. I think whenever I was in school, like I definitely had anxiety and had anxious moments or areas of my life, but like school actually felt like it wasn’t anxious for me.

Caleb Hatchett (04:25)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (04:27)
I don’t, and then like looking back, I think it’s more of, that was like kind of like you. liked being around my friends. I liked doing what I was doing. I was definitely on the shyer side when I was younger, but when I got to high school, that kind of went all went away. But, my anxiety was always more around getting the stuff done that I needed to get done because I had.

Caleb Hatchett (04:31)
Yeah.

Mm

Tobin Hodges (04:44)
band and I was in basketball and I had a job and I had a single mom, so I was having to take care of siblings as well. so my anxiety was more about the amount of work that was due. so a lot of that was where I struggled the most. so some things that if you’re listening, especially as a parent, the things you might notice is the kid might not want to go to school. Kind of like what Karlie was saying about her son. If they’re isolated, if…

I think my oldest is kind of like this in some ways, like he’s one of those people that has like three friends and he’s probably fine with that and that’s okay. Like there’s nothing wrong with that. But for a while, it felt like he was isolating himself. Like I was just like, why are you always by yourself or why are you eating by yourself? That kind of stuff. And so it might be isolation in school. if your student is talking about.

Karlie Duke (05:23)
Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (05:35)
Like are never talking about people that they’re hanging out with that might be something to kind of like probe a little bit and just kind of kind of fill out. Because again, sometimes it can be OK. Like that’s my kids case. If they’re complaining about being sick a lot, that’s a pretty it’s a pretty clear cut sign. I think that’s a pretty obvious sign for most people. And like I said, in my case, not bringing back projects or homework, sometimes the anxiety of just not turning things in because you don’t want to get a bad grade. Like even though like

Karlie Duke (06:03)
Mm

Tobin Hodges (06:04)
As an adult, look at that and you’re like, hey, as long as you turn it in, you’re at least going to get something. But as a kid, you think I don’t want to be judged. I don’t want to turn that in because I don’t want to know how bad I did it. I don’t or, you know, lots of things could go into that, but.

And then, know, in like this body language, sometimes it’s hormones. Sometimes it’s not. Sometimes it can be more than that. And so just kind of being in tune with your student to know what’s going on with that kind of stuff. The other thing too, that I see a lot in my son is, and this is something that you kind of have to kind of toe the line as a parent is my son does not want to have conversations with teachers like ever. Like if it’s a confrontation or if it’s a need to go ask a question, he will always revert to emailing them, which I know some of that is the generation in the society that we’re in, like I’m as a parent, I’m trying to also instill like, it’s okay to have a face -to -face conversation in these situations because sometimes those things go better face -to -face than they do. Like if you’re, especially if you’re talking about, Hey, I need to make up work or I’m struggling. It’s not going to come across as well in an email as it will face-to-face. so like that causes my son anxiety. Like he won’t go talk to teachers. Like, like, unless I’m basically shoving him there. And so.

Karlie Duke (07:11)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (07:19)
I don’t know if anybody else has seen that in their students before, that’s something that I know causes my son anxiety a lot, for sure.

Karlie Duke (07:25)
Interesting. Now, last week we talked about vicarious trauma. And one of the things we talked about was kind of setting boundaries or verbalizing if you need boundaries or a break. So especially for adults and our school people, if you are having any anxious thoughts throughout the day or throughout the year, that is also an opportunity for you to verbalize your thought process so that students can see that model.

Tobin Hodges (07:44)
Mm

Karlie Duke (07:53)
I think it’s important that we also model healthily how to take care of ourselves. So if you’re like, Hey, I’m having a really, and you don’t have to go into details, but even just something like, Hey, I’m having a really tough day. So I’m going to sit at my desk for five minutes. I want y ‘all to work on something and then we’ll get back into it. Like kind of talking them through what that looks like so that they can do that too. But I think something that.

we’re going to try to do in all of our episodes is kind of give a perspective shift of something to think about differently. And the first thing is it’s okay to feel anxious. It’s okay for our students to feel anxious, but we can still expect them to do hard things. And so I think sometimes unintentionally, if our students are worried about something or having anxious thoughts and you, I’m going to use the word coddled, but that might be too strong of a word.

but you help them in ways what you’re actually telling them or you’re like stepping in to rescue them, what you’re unintentionally telling them is that you don’t think they can do it on their own. Like where you’re trying to help them in the back of their mind, they’re like, man, mom doesn’t think that I can do this or this teacher doesn’t think that I can do this project and so she’s giving me different things than everyone else.

Like it’s okay to acknowledge and if you, if they need help, but be like, Hey, but I still expect you to do this. know this is going to be difficult, but you still have to show up to school. You still have to do your work. You still have to come to practice all of those things. And so I think that’s really important too of don’t just let them check out and be like, well, you don’t have to do this today. That’s not how that works.

Tobin Hodges (09:33)
Yeah. And from the school’s perspective too, if in listen, like I’ve struggled with this as a parent, but if you are trying to fix everything and if you are always trying to have the conversation instead of your student, especially as they get older, that’s going to create a weird student teacher relationship too of either the teacher will not trust to talk to the student and they will go directly to you. that creates a weird middleman or it’s going to make them think that they aren’t quite ready for the maturity level that’s maybe some things require in high school, like whether that be athletics, extracurriculars, whatever it may be. mean, like at some point, you know, you kind of have to let the students take care of their.

their stuff, even if they are anxious for that reason. Again, we’re we’re talking about teenagers, mainly, and especially probably older teenagers, especially. But at some point, you kind of have to let let them process through that in their own way, including taking care of it as well.

Karlie Duke (10:34)
Well, I have an example. When I was in high school, we, unfortunately, we took advantage of one of our teachers because she would be like, you poor things. But we would talk about how much homework we were getting on Wednesday nights. And we’re like, we’ve got church, we’ve got practice, it’s late. And she was like, that is unacceptable. No homework on Wednesday nights in my class. And I’m going to go to all your other teachers. And then that class became a like.

It was a geography class. This is no surprise if you know me because I’m awful with geography. I don’t know where anything is because like, for example, when we studied Africa, we watched the Lion King. Like that’s just kind of what we did in her class because she was worried that we had too much on our plate. But then what that also meant is like she didn’t think we could do that. She didn’t push us. I did not leave that class better than how I came into her class.

Caleb Hatchett (11:17)
Nice.

Karlie Duke (11:30)
because she was so worried about everything that we had on our plate that she was gonna take all of that away. Now, that is obviously an extreme example and our wonderful teachers are probably not doing that. But that’s where in her mind she was trying to be helpful. She wanted to help. But at some point, if you take everything away or if you make it where none of it’s difficult, they’re not going to leave better. They’re not gonna leave more prepared.

for you, but at the same time, it’s okay to sit there and validate their feelings of, Hey, I know this is hard. You don’t have to look at them and be, this is easy. It’s going to be fine when that’s just not the truth or they’re sitting there going, I’m really struggling. It’s okay to be like, Hey, I know what I assigned today is difficult. Or I know that what you’re going through with your friends today is not fun or easy, but let’s think through how, what are some steps that we can take to make this? What do you need from me to make this happen? But

put that on them and make them answer that instead of you just being like, here’s how I’m gonna help you today or here’s what you should do.

Tobin Hodges (12:32)
So coming from the school staff talking about perspective shifts, if you are a school staff listening in, it’s very easy to immediately write off a student or a teen for being quote unquote lazy or whatever in these situations. And listen, I’m very, very guilty of that as well when I was a teacher and still to this day sometimes as well. if you’re seeing these signs too,

There are things you can do as a teacher to maybe help with that. One thing I know that I did as a teacher is that whenever I had something heavy in the class, either a quiz or some sort of hard assignment, I would, I would have the room be calm when they came in, whether it’s with music, you know, maybe the lights dimmed a little bit. and then I would also preface, okay, today here’s, what’s going to be in front of you. I would lay out the plan in front of them because that helps- really it helps everybody, but it especially helps those, those anxious filled.

Karlie Duke (13:24)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (13:30)
teens and just kind of knowing again teachers are doing this like some of you are probably saying yeah, dummy I do this already, but just kind of being aware of all those things of if you are coming in hot-

it’s going to set them up for a problem, an anxious problem as well. Sometimes that perspective of if a kid is always going to the bathroom in your class or always going to the nurse getting sick or always late on homework, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, at Teen Life about how what they’re bringing to school with them, that might be a time to check in.

And just be like, Hey, you tell me how are you today? I don’t care about work. I don’t care about what’s going on in class. What are you? How are you? Like, where, are you at one to five? And then just kind of checking out. if they, and if they, you know, tell you three, four, five, whatever, and you just kind of move on, or you, or you kind of make a mental note, Hey, they’re not ready yet, or they’re not telling me the truth, or maybe they really are fine. And I need to get over and move past it that kind of thing. And so, just as a school staff, just kind of keep in mind that…

Karlie Duke (14:31)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (14:37)
Just as we as adults deal with this stuff on a daily basis, they’re dealing with it tenfold sometimes. And we don’t know the whole story behind it, what they’re going through either. So some tips and takeaways, just some easy things that we can do that we can start today if we wanted to. No matter if you’re a parent, a minister, student, whatever it may be.

Karlie Duke (14:47)
That’s good.

Tobin Hodges (14:58)
point out the things that they are doing well and the things where they are showing bravery through anxiety. if, if you know, I’ll use my son as an example, if I know that my son struggles with those, those interactions, and if I, if I know that he has taken it, taken initiative and done that with his teacher, I immediately point out, Hey, great job on that. Thank you for doing that, that kind of thing. And it just kind of solidifies like not one that’s the kind of behavior that we-

Karlie Duke (15:01)
Mm

Tobin Hodges (15:28)
that I need him to do as a parent, but two, it also solidifies that I’m recognizing that was a hard thing for him to do and it’s okay. And I’m glad that he did it. Yeah.

Karlie Duke (15:34)
Mm -hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (15:38)
And I think too, even like you said, as a teacher and  if I’m assigning a hard test or something that will probably cause these kids anxiety, you know, cause Hey, it’s the, it’s the final exam. And there’s a few kids who will fail this class, you know, maybe let’s make this an environment where even they’re stepping into a calm, think even as a parent, right? Knowing some of these things, knowing some of these anxiety triggers for your kids. And then

Karlie Duke (15:52)
you

Caleb Hatchett (16:05)
being conscious about how even for me, I think back to my dad would take me to get Chick-fil-A breakfast. I could slam a chicken biscuit. And so, that was something I looked forward to and he did it on game days. And that for me, I was always a little anxious on game days. Like it was school. Yes. But also the, you know, going through getting ready for the game and the game itself, we will just, was a, was a trigger for anxiety for me. And I don’t even think he was conscious about it.

But even just something to look forward to and it wasn’t even necessarily- let’s talk about your anxiety today- But it was just something that gave me something to look forward to that kind of helped

ease that day. And so, you know, if you know that there’s a big test coming up or a trigger for anxiety, even just creating a space or something that they can look forward to that day. I also think having conversations with your student on their time, because I look back, you know, in my time as a student, even talking to some parents I have a conversation coming right out of school, hey, how is school, let’s really dissect this day. And if school is an anxious place for them, they’re probably not want to have that conversation

Karlie Duke (16:48)
Hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (17:15)
just leaving that place that caused them anxiety. They’re probably still in fight or flight, still trying to process. And so just creating the right times to have those conversations. I know a parent who brings their dog with them whenever they pick the kids up from school. And that just helps even the conversations in the pickup line immediately, because it’s something that they feel comfortable with and reminds them of home and they feel safe around. And so I think there’s just little ways to create spaces

Karlie Duke (17:21)
Hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (17:44)
that your students feel calm even in, that you can control as a parent. Having those conversations on the time, try most of the time on their end, that works with them after they’ve processed instead of just the fight or flight of leaving school.

Karlie Duke (18:00)
I think too, especially if you’re on a school campus and you’re seeing this at school. One thing, Tobin kind of mentioned this at the beginning, believing the best about your students of if they’re not turning something in or if something went wrong. There are one-offs and there are bad days, but trying to think through there might be a reason for that. Can I start asking questions that are going to get to the bottom of that without being

invasive, but if you have a student who just regularly cannot get assignments turned in on time of, Hey, how’s life at home going right now? Or, Hey, how many, what are your responsibilities? Do you have a job? Are you doing sports? Are you in band? Do you have siblings that you have to pick up and take places after school? Like what is going on in figuring out how you can help them? Or are you worried about this? And is there something I can give you to help you prep ahead of time that’s going to let you know without giving them the answers, but hey,

they’re going to be, I had teachers do this before, which was really helpful before a test. There are going to be three questions that you have to write answers for and they’re gonna be 50 multiple choice. They didn’t necessarily tell me what the answers were, but that way I could get my mind wrapped around of, okay, I at least know what to expect if it’s not like I’m gonna have to sit there and write for an hour. And so thinking of ways that you can help if you have anxious students and maybe if you know you have an anxious student,

And they’ve talked to you about that seeing ahead of time, like, Hey, is there anything I can do that you think would help the class? Don’t put it just on them, but what would help the class feel better about this? And they might have some good ideas that you could use as well. I’m also going to link a podcast episode, especially if you’re a parent and have a student who doesn’t want to go to school.

That kind of talks, dives more into that and how to help them outside of school with school anxiety. So we’ll link that too, if you want to check the show notes.

Tobin Hodges (19:56)
Yeah, and just one last practical thing is it gets really easy to get bogged down in the negative. Just ask them two things that are going well in their life right now. It can be simple. I mean, it could literally be two versus a thousand bad things, but what are two things that are going well? especially with teenagers and boys especially, you’ll get the nothing, nothing’s going, you know, or,

Karlie Duke (20:21)
You

Tobin Hodges (20:22)
I’m at school, so nothing, you know, it’s like, might get angst and, you know, stuff for it, but just, you know, just, I always kind of say, Hey man, what’s a good meal you had lately? You know, then that kind of opens up an easy accessible answer. And so, just those are things that you can do to kind of, cause, we’re just trying to get their brain to think.

Karlie Duke (20:33)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (20:43)
positively in it the very minimum get their mind off of what’s causing them anxiety in that situation especially. So those are a couple of practical things that you can do in the car today if you wanted to.

Karlie Duke (20:55)
All right, well, that’s a wrap on this question. So subscribe on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts so you don’t miss our upcoming questions and episodes. And then, like we said at the beginning, please, please send us your questions. We want to know what questions you have and what would be most helpful for you and the students that you are around. So you can reach out on social media or you can email them to podcast@teenlife.ngo – I’ll also link that in the show notes for you to find and we’ll see you next time.

 

Links & Resources:

Karlie Duke
Karlie Duke

Director of Communications

Tobin Hodges
Tobin Hodges

Program Director

Caleb Hatchett

Caleb Hatchett

Podcast Host

More Resources You Might Like

Test Anxiety + Credit Cards Ep. 153
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How to Cope with Vicarious Trauma | Ep. 162

How to Cope with Vicarious Trauma | Ep. 162

by | Oct 1, 2024 | Mental Health, Personal Development, Podcast

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Understanding Vicarious Trauma: How to Cope and Care for Yourself as You Care for Others

In this episode, we dive into an important topic for anyone working closely with teens or others in distress—vicarious trauma. Vicarious trauma is the experience of absorbing others’ pain so deeply that it begins to affect your own well-being. Whether you’re a teacher, mentor, coach, or just a caring adult, you may unknowingly take on the emotional weight of others’ struggles, leading to emotional and physical exhaustion.

Key Question

What is vicarious trauma and how can I cope with it?

What We Cover
  • What vicarious trauma is and how it might show up in your life.
  • The emotional and physical signs to watch for, including exhaustion, difficulty focusing, anxiety, and even physical symptoms like headaches and changes in appetite.
  • How this can affect your ability to mentor and support teens effectively.

Signs You Might Be Experiencing Vicarious Trauma

  • Emotional exhaustion
  • Intrusive thoughts
  • Difficulty focusing or increased negativity
  • Panic attacks, anxiety, or depression
  • Physical symptoms like headaches, fatigue, changes in appetite, or difficulty sleeping

Perspective Shift

It’s crucial to remember: you have to take care of yourself in order to help others.

Setting boundaries and recognizing your limits isn’t selfish—it’s necessary for your own well-being and the well-being of those you mentor. By caring for yourself, you’ll be better equipped to care for others.

TL Tips & Takeaways:

Set Boundaries:

Establishing healthy boundaries is key. Whether in a school, church setting, or with your own kids’ friends, know when to step back. This might mean taking breaks, saying no when needed, or limiting your availability to certain times.

Be Self-Aware:

Ask yourself regularly:

  • How am I feeling this week? (Try the fist to five check-in method.)
  • Am I thinking about someone else’s situation long after I’ve left work or as I’m trying to go to bed?
  • Is someone else’s trauma bringing up my own unresolved feelings or past experiences?

Take Action for Your Well-Being:

What small steps can you take this week to recharge or get the support you need? This could be talking to a trusted friend, taking time for a hobby you enjoy, or even seeking professional support.

Tune in to this episode to learn how you can better cope with vicarious trauma and maintain the emotional resilience you need to keep supporting the teens who count on you.
Read Episode Transcript

Tobin Hodges (00:00)
to start us off. Love it.

Karlie Duke (00:02)
Yeah, nice and light.

What is vicarious trauma and how can I cope with it? A nice light question to kick off this podcast season, new format, whatever you want to call it. So guys, what do we think about this? Yeah, welcome back.

Tobin Hodges (00:23)
Yeah, welcome back. Welcome back. Hope you’re buckled up while you’re listening to this. So now let’s talk about trauma.

Caleb Hatchett (00:24)
Yeah, yeah I Hope your summer was great, you know, let’s let’s get into Vicarious drama. Yeah

Karlie Duke (00:35)
For real, I feel like this is such a big topic, especially with the people that we work with, especially anyone who is around teenagers, who’s working with teenagers to not take on what they are bringing to you and what you’re like walking through with them is really difficult. just, mean, I guess the first place to start is what is vicarious trauma, which…

Caleb Hatchett (00:40)
Mm

Tobin Hodges (00:40)
Sure.

Karlie Duke (01:00)
One of the definitions that I saw that I liked is it’s the experience of absorbing others pain in times of their distress so deeply that it affects your own well -being.

And so I think that’s like the key part of it’s not just empathy, because empathy is a good thing. We want to have empathy with our students, but when you’re like feeling their feelings and then like it’s impacting you and your health, that’s where it becomes a vicarious trauma. That’s kind of a bigger deal.

Caleb Hatchett (01:30)
great.

Tobin Hodges (01:34)
Yeah, I think that this is something that like I do quite heavily. This like I, I want to fix things like I’m a people pleaser and I want to fix people and fix things. And so like when things are hurting and things are not going the way they’re supposed to, like, this is something that I actually like, like do a lot. And so sometimes it works for my favor. Like that, think is one of reasons why I’m doing what I do for a living. But sometimes it’s super does not like, especially like

Karlie Duke (01:45)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (02:01)
I don’t know if you guys like, do you all ever like read the news and like want to fix everything and just kind of get mad when you can’t like, like that’s like, I actively avoid the news for many reasons, but that’s one of them is like, I feel like whenever I, whenever I start reading about other people’s issues that are, that are things out of my control, it just stresses me out. And so, yeah, I know that that’s might be minor compared to what some people deal with with this stuff, but yeah, it’s, definitely something that I, that I cope with on a daily basis for sure.

Karlie Duke (02:19)
Mm -hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (02:28)
I think like for me it’s kind of weird because I’m very much the opposite and like even growing up like you know in college like going like in psychology classes going over like here are the signs of psychopaths and You know like they feel no emotion or like the emotion of others. I’m like this me do I? And I don’t think it is okay. I don’t think I don’t think I’m a psychopath, but I’ve just like I’ve that’s I’ve been able to be there for people

Tobin Hodges (02:46)
Ha ha!

Karlie Duke (02:47)
That’s horrifying.

Caleb Hatchett (02:56)
But I, for whatever reason, just almost to like a negative, never take their emotions on myself.

Karlie Duke (03:03)
you

Caleb Hatchett (03:05)
You know, of like, to where I have to work hard to be empathetic, to sit there and be like, man, I’m feeling what you’re feeling. But I don’t know, for me, it’s just like, I’ve been able to keep those things separate. you know, like even my wife, that’s one of the reasons she was a psychology major, wanted to be a psychologist. And one of the reasons she said, I don’t think I can do that. It’s just cause she’s like, I don’t know if I can hear and take on these people’s problems and know I can’t fix that for you.

Karlie Duke (03:28)
Mm -hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (03:34)
And you know, that’s something that she really struggles with because she’s really empathetic and you know, taking on other people’s things that they’re going through and being like, man, now, now I’m feeling this. And I don’t know for me, it’s kind of nice because of where I am and having to be there and counsel for students, things like that. But I don’t know, I guess I can give an interesting perspective for anyone who feels like me and talk about how can maybe we be more empathetic and feel

Karlie Duke (04:00)
Hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (04:03)
the things that the people who are coming to us need us to feel in a way.

Karlie Duke (04:09)
I also think before we kind of get into some of the signs, I do think something that is really interesting too is like the way social media plays into this. For example, I’m more closely to Tobin. Like I feel things and I will also find myself sometimes late at night, like going down a rabbit hole if I found this family that had this tragedy happen to them. And I will watch every video and get every story. And then I’ll look up and it’s been like hours and I’m like crying about this family that I’ve never met.

Caleb Hatchett (04:16)
Mm

Karlie Duke (04:39)
And then it’ll like keep me up and I’ll be thinking it’s a whole thing. One time I like Googled symptoms that I thought maybe one of my kids had based on like this rare disease that I’ve watched on social media. But all that to say, I do think social media makes this a bigger deal because it’s not just while you’re at school or while you’re in front of someone. And for our teenagers too, they’re not just being traumatized anymore. We’ve talked about this, I think on the podcast before.

Caleb Hatchett (04:57)
Yeah.

Karlie Duke (05:07)
They’re not just being traumatized by what’s right in front of them. They also are being exposed to stuff 24 seven that can cause almost like secondary, maybe secondhand trauma.

Caleb Hatchett (05:18)
Mm -hmm Yeah Which I mean I yeah like I I think that’s a good way to also put this of I Remember on the phone call you’re like vicarious trauma. I’m like what? What so yeah, I don’t know secondhand trauma you just feel it like feeling Feeling that and so like what what the signs, you know, like maybe you’re like, okay, this is something I struggle with How would I know?

Karlie Duke (05:23)
I like that.

Hahaha

Mm

Caleb Hatchett (05:43)
Some of the signs that you’re experiencing is just emotional exhaustion, right? I feel like that one’s obvious intrusive thoughts you can mental like mentally Feel like hard to focus. Maybe you’re just being more negative panic attacks anxiety depression and Physical symptoms as well like headaches changes an appetite or eating fatigue or difficulty sleeping and so it’s just interesting that like those are almost signs of someone experiencing a trauma or anxiety and it’s not

even you experiencing that trauma.

Karlie Duke (06:16)
Yeah, and I think a good marker is if you’re going home at night or you’re laying in bed at night and you keep thinking about that and you can’t like walk away or put up a boundary with something that you’ve heard from a student, that might be a time to start asking questions of is this something that I’ve taken on where now I’m also experiencing distress or it’s affecting my wellbeing, it’s affecting my family life, it’s affecting my sleep. All of those things are good questions.

Caleb Hatchett (06:21)
Mm.

Karlie Duke (06:45)
to ask. Now, I wrote a blog post about this for teen life and so I’ll link that. That kind of goes a little deeper on some of these, but one thing that I kind of want to like put out there is maybe a shift in your thinking is you have to take care of yourself to help others. And like we all know the classic when you’re sitting on an airplane and the flight attendant comes up and gives the whole speech and does the like before you

Caleb Hatchett (06:46)
Right.

Karlie Duke (07:14)
help others put your oxygen mask on yourself. And so use that analogy for this, because I think as helpers, as people who love other people and who are in helping roles, whether you’re in a school, a church, or just someone who loves teens and has them in your home all the time, you constantly want to help. And sometimes that means putting yourself second. But if you aren’t well, you’re not going to be able.

to help them the best way you can.

Caleb Hatchett (07:45)
Yeah. And it feels so wrong, like being in that situation, right? Of, like if this is something that you feel, like, feel like you are.

Karlie Duke (07:48)
Mm

Caleb Hatchett (07:56)
very much a type of person who wants to help. Right? Like if, if you’re feeling empathy to the point where it’s affecting you that, that man, that’s great. This is something about you of wanting to be there for others. And so my guess is you’re a type of person who is going to always put yourself last and like, you’re not doing you any good and you’re not doing the people you’re helping any good either. I mean, if, your comps empty, you don’t have anything to pour out into others. And it’s just so draining on, on you and,

Karlie Duke (08:14)
Mm

Caleb Hatchett (08:26)
and then eventually, hopefully not, like just burnt out and, and so, yeah, then you can’t help anybody. And so it feels wrong, but it really is so true. You have to make sure you are in a place to help others before you can. And so like, don’t feel bad about putting yourself first or setting up boundaries and be like, man, I just, I love you. I want to be there for you, but I can’t have this, this conversation with you right now.

Karlie Duke (08:40)
Mm

Mm

Caleb Hatchett (08:53)
because it won’t do either of us good. It feels so the opposite of helpful, but in the long term it is.

Tobin Hodges (09:02)
Well, and just like setting boundaries, a lot of the stuff is just finding balance too. So like, you know, the worst version of me is I carry everything and I, and everything else that it’s, you know, my family and myself takes the back burner and the worst version of Caleb is he’s oblivious and he’s in a bubble. Like, and you don’t, you’re not, you’re not ever advocating or taking on things if you don’t for championing people that you should be championing. And it’s just, it’s just finding a balance. I mean, it’s, you know, like.

Karlie Duke (09:25)
Hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (09:26)
Yeah, right.

Tobin Hodges (09:31)
there is something to be said about…

having these conversations and setting a, like setting a, I don’t know, goals on the right word, but setting a, a vision of what you think that’s going to look like in helping these people. And, you know, one of the things that happens a lot in these situations is like Karlie was saying, you get, you get sucked into it and then you end up being part of the problem in that situation. I mean, that, that goes with everything with trauma is that you don’t want to add to that. You have to be able to, to help and be a

Karlie Duke (09:55)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (10:03)
part of the puzzle and not part of the, you know, the suck on it. Like you can’t, you can’t like be the thing that’s adding to the, to the trauma. And so it’s just, it’s not even just about your own self. I mean, it is like, yes, it is important to make sure that you are not getting like mentally exhausted in having intrusive thoughts, kinds of things. But it’s also like, there’s a point where like, like, think, I think like funerals and deaths are a great example of this, of when someone has experienced loss, like, yes, they need

Karlie Duke (10:29)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (10:33)
people and yes, they want people and they are going through trauma, but also there’s a, there’s a limit that they can handle. Like, like the amount of people that show up that at houses and in the ones that will bring in a casserole and stay for three hours because they think that they’re being helpful, you know, in that situation. like, I mean, it’s all about when, when we see someone going through vicarious trauma or going through trauma, have to figure out what is working for them and how can I be a piece of that puzzle instead of trying to solve it and fix it and do all that kind of stuff.

Karlie Duke (11:03)
Hmm. Well, we’ve said several times, like setting boundaries is important, but say you’re listening and you’re like, that’s my job. I can’t just be like, sorry, I’m done. I’m walking out. And so I want to talk a little bit about what does it look like in a school setting? What does it look like in a church setting? What does it look like maybe even in your own home of how can you set boundaries well? Now I will say upfront, if you are like,

Tobin Hodges (11:14)
Yeah.

Caleb Hatchett (11:14)
Yeah.

Karlie Duke (11:34)
a licensed or like practicing counselor, you have different, and you know this, you have different rules set on you of like confidentiality and what that looks like. But like one of my first things maybe as a boundary, if you don’t have that same thing, maybe ask that student, hey, can I bring in another trusted adult into this conversation with us? Or hey, do you mind if I, I’ll keep it like anonymous, but do you mind if I share this with someone just to get a different perspective?

where you’re not the only person who’s having to carry this burden for this student. And so like I said, there are different rules if you’re like a counselor, but if you’re a teacher and a student comes to you with something, be like, hey, is there another teacher that we can pull in? Hey, is there a trusted parent or someone outside of this room that I can go with you and we can have this conversation together? And that way you’re kind of sharing the load a little bit and not feeling like, man, this is…

all on me and I can’t talk to anybody about it and I’m carrying that.

Tobin Hodges (12:34)
Well, in a school setting, if you’re not a counselor, that is the common best practice anyway. You shouldn’t be working with kids one -on -one in those settings. that’s, that’s how, you know.

Caleb Hatchett (12:34)
Mm.

Karlie Duke (12:40)
Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (12:47)
things get said and done that shouldn’t be done and like, or people assume that, you know, that relationships are performing that are inappropriate and that kind of stuff. So, yeah, from a school setting, like when you set boundaries in school, that’s, that’s one big one is, you know, bringing other people in, I would say like peers, depending on the, depending on the content, you might bring a peer in and have them walk alongside a peer in a situation. especially if you’re, if you’re talking about teenagers,

Karlie Duke (12:49)
Right.

Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (13:14)
The other boundary that, that I’m again, wasn’t great at as a teacher and probably one of the reasons why, like, I’m not sure I would be great as a, as a school counselor is you have to learn how to leave it like in the building and not take it to your house to an extent. Like obviously like you can’t like that, that’s kind of goes back to what Caleb was saying. That feels kind of cold, but

Karlie Duke (13:28)
Mm -hmm.

Tobin Hodges (13:36)
If you are constantly carrying the burdens of what’s happening at school home with you, like that ends up affecting your home life. so that that’s one boundary that’s, that’s hard to do, but that’s kind of important of, Hey, when I walk out that door at four 35, seven, whatever it may be for teachers, like that stuff kind of has to, you know, I’ll say 80 20 has to stay in that building because you can’t, you can’t take that stuff everywhere with you for sure.

Caleb Hatchett (14:06)
I think like even going with that like from, I don’t know, I think about it from like a church leader perspective of like, you know, if you’re having students, small group, things like that around your home, I think part of it is just setting a boundary of like the environment those conversations are happening, right? Because if it’s like,

even in your own living room having these conversations, a lot like a lot of conversations have had, right? But it gets almost even harder mentally to separate those things, right? And so I don’t know, just setting up an environment of being like, man, I want to have this conversation, but like, almost, I don’t know, my mind almost goes to like,

you know, a heated argument. It’s like, man, let’s just take some, some time. And, some of those conversations need to be happening right there in the moment, right? Because sometimes the students are feeling they need to get whatever’s they’re experiencing or whatever’s on their chest off their chest. And so, I don’t know, part of it is I think reading the situation, but also just knowing that, can this wait and can we, it be more productive in a different environment or whenever we’re both able to approach it from the same side, instead of just spur of the moment you’re caught off

or like, and you’re just feeling the weight of it all. I don’t know. That’s, where my mind goes.

Karlie Duke (15:15)
When I know we have people listening to who teenagers have their cell phone numbers and or follow them on social media and can get in touch with them. And if you are walking through a difficult challenge with a student, it is okay to tell that student unless it is an emergency, hey, I will get back to you tomorrow. Hey, I’m with my family right now. Hey, I’m about to go to bed. All can I call you at this? If you need to set a time, hey, can I call you tomorrow?

Caleb Hatchett (15:34)
Yeah.

Karlie Duke (15:44)
at 3 .30 after you get out of school. Or like read that text of like, hey, I saw this, I’ll respond tomorrow when I’m not at home. Like setting those boundaries and honestly, it’s really good for teenagers to hear that, to have that model to them of like, okay, this person cares about me because they acknowledged me, but they also are putting their family first or they’re putting their own wellbeing first. And that’s something that I can do too, moving forward.

Tobin Hodges (15:53)
Mm

Karlie Duke (16:11)
of the next time a friend comes to them and they’re not in a head space to take care of it, they’ve had that model to them of like, hey, I can’t respond to this right now, but let’s set a date and time to talk about this or I’ll come over as soon as I’m done with this and we can have that conversation. Now there are certain situations that are more extreme where you might have to answer right then, no matter what, if you’re walking with a student who is like having suicidal thoughts or stuff like that. But I mean,

Adults know this. You know what can be answered at a later time and said in a way that still makes a student feel important.

Caleb Hatchett (16:48)
Think yeah, like even just like responding right and communicating that with them Like I like you like what you said goes a long way of it. It helps model for them, right? Okay, here’s boundaries just needs to be respected but like also answering right away being like hey Is it okay like in this way and setting a date and time gives them something? To look forward to cling on to and like you said like no that they’re not just ignoring me Like I’m not just a burden on them because I’m sure that’s what a lot of teens feel right? That’s a lot of like what I feel if I’m ever

Tobin Hodges (16:48)
It does.

Karlie Duke (16:53)
Mm

Mm

Right.

Hmm.

Tobin Hodges (17:16)
Mm

Caleb Hatchett (17:18)
You know talking to somebody about what i’m going through like I don’t want to put a weight on you and so Right, just read constant reassuring of like hey, you know, like i’m i’m here for you and I want to be there with you but making sure that they’re here to heard and loved even because I always default me talks about this whenever we talked about not reading texts or like communication because I have like 1300 Unread text messages a lot from group messages

Karlie Duke (17:44)
Still?

Tobin Hodges (17:46)
He said like, he said like 300 last time. just said 1300. So it’s gotten higher.

Caleb Hatchett (17:46)
It’s a group messages.

Karlie Duke (17:47)
What’s the number? What’s the number?

What’s the number?

Caleb Hatchett (17:52)
1400,

Tobin Hodges (17:54)
Good grief.

Karlie Duke (17:55)
Text messages? Hang on. Text messages?

Tobin Hodges (18:04)
then get out of the group.

Karlie Duke (18:05)
So just open it and take…

Caleb Hatchett (18:10)
It’s a lot. Anyways, just if you’re like me, bad at communication, a lot of like what I feel is like, that’s like a thing I have to do. So I’m to push it off, but like.

Karlie Duke (18:11)
Okay, sorry.

Caleb Hatchett (18:19)
and especially like with teenagers, with people that you’re there for, respond right away. And even if it’s a, can’t right now, it’s better than just ignoring it, I promise. And so it’s as you’re doing yourself such a favor by even right away being like, even if it’s no, and that feels wrong, and you don’t want to tell a kid no, it’s so much better than just ignoring it. So.

Karlie Duke (18:20)
Hmm.

Mm

Or even saying like very clearly, hey, I want to be able to give you my full attention, but I’m in the middle of something right now or I can’t tonight. Like letting them know in that way, hey, I want to give you my full attention and that can happen at this time. I’ll get back to you.

Caleb Hatchett (18:54)
Yeah. Yeah. So let’s have a no and my god, right now.

Karlie Duke (18:59)
Yes, exactly. Okay, so my other thing kind of just to take away of like something that you can be doing if you’re listening right now is I want you to have some self -awareness as we’re talking through this and ask some questions. And one of them is I think a classic teen life question is just how am I feeling this week? We use a scale of fist to five a lot in our groups with students. So that was you would hold up

a number to yourself, which seems silly, but like from fist to five, fist being like my week is terrible, five, it’s the best week ever. But just kind of checking yourself, like how am I feeling right now? How am I personally doing? Also some check -ins about trauma, like am I thinking about someone else’s situation after I leave work or when I’m trying to go to bed or when I’m with my family? Is someone else’s trauma triggering my own experience? So sometimes,

If you have had a traumatic experience in your past and a student is talking about something similar, it can bring up all these feelings of something that you went through when you were that age or that you have gone through in your past. And so not only are you like vicarious trauma, but it’s also bringing up past trauma. And so kind of check in about that. And then finally, like, what can I do to take a break or get support this week?

So maybe that looks like talking to someone, maybe you honestly need to also see a therapist or a counselor or talk to a professional of like, hey, this is bringing up feelings and emotions and signs that I don’t feel like are healthy for me right now. Or maybe it’s I’m gonna take a day off work and I’m gonna lay in bed and read a book all day or I’m gonna go get a massage or I’m gonna go to lunch with friends and just get away from it.

for little bit, but do something this week that will help you get support and maybe just feel like you are in a better head space to help teenagers moving forward.

Caleb Hatchett (21:03)
Yeah, I love that for like, am I feeling this week of just kind of your self inventory of like, that’s one of the last things like I think of is me and how like, let’s let’s let me slow down for a second. And like, how am I really doing? And, you know, take care of yourself first. That kind of goes back to what we said. And then like, I think, yeah, just finding your own support is so huge, especially whenever you’re there for so many other people, like you need your own support. And especially in situations where

Karlie Duke (21:07)
Mm

Hmm.

Caleb Hatchett (21:32)
you’re having to be there for someone else’s trauma, hear that out and being that with them. Like, like we kind of said earlier, it can kind of feel like it’s just me.

Like they’ve trusted just me and it’s up to just me. can’t tell anyone. I don’t want to betray trust. And you know, not even necessarily finding, you know, support or someone to be like, man, here’s this. There are situations where you need to invite people in, just supportive. Hey, like I just, need just support for, for having to be there for, other people and just, just things, find ways and know yourself of ways that fill your own cup. so that way you can pour down to others.

Karlie Duke (22:02)
Yeah.

Maybe find a friend that y ‘all can each week ask each other, are you doing? Maybe that’s a coworker or another friend and you could be like, hey, I’m going to ask you every Monday and every Friday, how you doing? And I want you to do the same so we can check in on each other moving forward. Well, that’s a wrap for this episode in this question. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts so that you don’t miss any episodes coming up.

Caleb Hatchett (22:13)
Yeah.

Tobin Hodges (22:27)
Yeah, that’s good.

Karlie Duke (22:39)
We’ve got some really good ones planned out through this fall and then even maybe an extra special bonus episode coming around Christmas time. And then I just want to repeat again, if you have a question that you want to submit that you want us to talk about on this podcast, you can reach out on social media or email us at podcast at teenlife .ngo. We’ll see you next week.

 

Links & Resources:

Karlie Duke
Karlie Duke

Director of Communications

Tobin Hodges
Tobin Hodges

Program Director

Caleb Hatchett

Caleb Hatchett

Podcast Host

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Unlocking the Power of Support Groups

Unlocking the Power of Support Groups

by | Jun 17, 2024 | Blog, Mental Health, School, Support Groups

Every teen should participate in a Support Group. Here’s why.

As parents and educators, we are acutely aware of the myriad of challenges that today’s teenagers face. From academic pressures to social dynamics and mental health concerns, teenagers are navigating murky and turbulent waters. Most of the teenagers we know are looking for hope and connection. Whether they come from difficult places or fantastic families, teenagers are struggling to find places where they feel accepted for who they are, and Teen Life Support Groups offer exactly that.

But what exactly are these Support Groups, and why should we encourage our teens to join them?

What’s the big deal about Teen Life Support Groups?

Teen Life Support Groups are safe, supportive spaces where adolescents can share their experiences and learn from one another. It’s essential to note that these groups are not therapy—and this distinction is crucial. Here’s why:

Combatting the Stigma of Therapy

Despite growing awareness around mental health, there remains a stigma associated with therapy. Many teens and parents hesitate to seek therapeutic help due to fears of judgment or labeling. Support groups, on the other hand, are perceived differently. They are seen as peer-driven and less formal, making it easier for teens to participate without feeling stigmatized.

 

One of our favorite more recent stories from Support Groups came from a girl who knew she needed help but didn’t know how to get it.

After an 8-week Support Group, she knew that her friends needed what she had found. She was so determined to get the same help for her friends that she pursued an adult who she thought would make a great facilitator.

It turned out she was right. Several of her friends were struggling with suicidal thoughts, and because they were placed in a Support Group, the school staff and the facilitator were able to intervene in a positive, life-changing way.

Convenient Scheduling During School Hours

One of the significant advantages of Support Groups is their timing. These sessions usually occur during school hours, fitting seamlessly into a student’s day. This convenience means teens are more likely to attend and benefit from these sessions without additional travel or time commitments after school, making participation hassle-free and more appealing. For many of the teens we see, this is a deciding factor in getting help that could change or even save their lives.

The Center for Disease Control (CDC) agrees.

Recently, they released a guide for promoting mental health and well-being in schools. In it, they outline ways that schools can create systems for early prevention and detection of mental health concerns and ways to teach students the social skills they need to thrive. It can seem overwhelming for teachers and counselors to tackle something like that alone, but Teen Life offers a ready structure and curriculum that meets many, if not all, of the listed practices.

Photo of a groups of teens smiling and laughing together on a bench

Solution-Focused Curriculum

Our curriculum is rooted in solution-focused therapy principles. This approach empowers teens by helping them identify harmful patterns and understand their consequences. More importantly, it equips them with practical steps to forge a better path forward. Through guided discussions and activities, teens learn to set goals, develop coping strategies, and build resilience, all within a supportive peer environment.

Solution Focused

Benefits for Teachers and Counselors

While the direct benefits to students are evident, the positive ripple effects on teachers and counselors are equally significant:

Educators can share the burden of meeting their students’ needs.

The reality is that there are too many teens in need of help for teachers and counselors to support them all adequately. According to NAMI, one in six kids aged 6-17 experience a mental health disorder each year, but only 50% receive help. School staff are often stretched thin, trying to provide individual attention amidst their numerous responsibilities. Support groups can bridge this gap, offering a collective support system where teens can receive the help they need.

A collaborative support system benefits everyone.

When teens participate in support groups, they bring back improved coping mechanisms and a better understanding of their behaviors into the classroom. This positive change can make classroom management easier and enhance the overall learning environment. What’s more, support groups build community among students, reducing bullying and social isolation overall, but also improving students’ resilience when they are provoked. We’ve heard from many teachers and counselors who say they love Groups because they see fewer negative behaviors to manage during and after students have participated.

Encourage Participation

To maximize the benefits of Teen Life support groups, it’s crucial for parents and educators to actively encourage participation. Here are a few strategies:

  • Promote Awareness
    Educate teens and parents about the nature and benefits of support groups. Sharing the concepts covered in the curriculum and clarifying that these are not therapy sessions can help reduce resistance. Support groups truly are for ALL types of students!
  • Facilitate Access
    Work with schools to integrate support group sessions into the regular school schedule. Make sure the times are convenient for students, even if that means missing class. Trust us, the overall benefits far outweigh the costs.
  • Engage and Support
    Encourage open communication about the experiences and benefits of support groups. Celebrate the successes and progress of participants to motivate others to join. In our experience, students become the greatest advocates of support groups once they experience one for themselves!

 

Together, we can create a healthier, more supportive environment for all our students.

It’s easier than you might think to get started!

Contact us for more details on our online training or bringing Support Groups to your school.

Kelly Fann
Kelly Fann

Digital Media Manager

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Follow Us

ChatGPT + Summer Bucket List | 161

ChatGPT + Summer Bucket List | 161

by | May 28, 2024 | Holidays, Parenting, Podcast, Technology

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

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The Ultimate Summer Bucket List for Teens and Their Families

Summer is a time for relaxation, adventure, and creating unforgettable memories with your loved ones. With longer days and warmer weather, there’s no better opportunity to explore new activities and bond as a family. Here’s a fun-filled summer bucket list for teens and their families to enjoy together.

1. Outdoor Movie Night

Transform your backyard into a magical movie theater under the stars. Set up a screen and a projector, or find outdoor movie events in your area. Bring cozy blankets, pillows, and a selection of your favorite movies. Don’t forget the popcorn and snacks to complete the cinematic experience.

2. Start a Fight (A Fun One!)

Food Fight

Channel your inner child with a playful food fight. Choose foods that are easy to clean up, like whipped cream or mashed potatoes, and head to a designated area where messes are welcome. Make sure to set some ground rules to keep it safe and fun for everyone.

Water Balloon Fight

Cool off on a hot day with a classic water balloon fight. Fill up plenty of balloons, divide into teams, and let the water warfare begin. You can also set up targets for a friendly competition to see who has the best aim.

Nerf War

Gather your Nerf guns and darts for an epic battle. Create obstacles and hiding spots in your backyard or a local park. Teams can strategize and work together to capture the flag or defend their territory.

Color Powder Fight

Bring a burst of color to your summer with a color powder fight. Use safe, non-toxic color powders, and wear white clothes for the best effect. This vibrant activity is perfect for an afternoon of fun and makes for great photo opportunities.

3. Themed Snack Party

Candy Salad

Create a delightful and colorful candy salad. Mix different types of candies in a large bowl, and let everyone add their favorite treats. It’s a sweet and playful twist on a traditional salad that’s sure to be a hit.

Color Food Baskets

Organize a party where each guest brings a basket of food in a specific color. Arrange the foods creatively, and enjoy a rainbow feast. This is a fun way to try new snacks and enjoy a visually appealing spread.

Board Party

Everyone brings a different charcuterie board. Get creative and have everyone bring a different themed board: a sweet board, a dips board, a cheese and crackers board, etc. Or by country: an Italian board, a Greek board, and so forth. You could even play board games. You get the idea.

Collaborative Dinner

Invite friends and family over for a collaborative cooking challenge. Each person brings an ingredient, and together, you have to create a delicious dish using everything provided. It’s a fun way to experiment in the kitchen and discover new flavors.

4. Game Night

Unplug from technology and gather for a night of board games, card games, and puzzles. Choose a variety of games to keep everyone engaged, from strategy games to party games. It’s a great way to foster teamwork, friendly competition, and lots of laughs.

5. Be a Tourist in Your City for a Day

Rediscover the hidden gems in your home city by being a tourist for a day. Visit local attractions, museums, parks, and historical sites that you’ve never explored before.

Let ChatGPT Plan Your Day

For a unique twist, let ChatGPT plan your itinerary. Share your interests and preferences, and get customized recommendations for a day full of exciting activities and new experiences. You might uncover surprising destinations and activities you never knew existed.

Creating a summer bucket list ensures that your family makes the most of the season by blending fun, adventure, learning, and relaxation. These activities provide opportunities for bonding, personal growth, and making lasting memories. So grab your calendar, start planning, and get ready for a summer filled with joy and connection!

Also in this episode

  • Should teens be using ChatGPT 4 and talking tips for helping them navigate it.
  • An update for the future of the Teen Life Podcast and exciting things coming soon.

Have a question?

If you have a question about something you heard or just want to give us some feedback, please leave us a comment below.  We would love to hear from you!

About Us

Karlie Duke

Karlie Duke

Director of Communications

Karlie Duke
Karlie Duke

Director of Communications

Tobin Hodges

Tobin Hodges

Program Director

Tobin Hodges
Tobin Hodges

Program Director

Caleb Hatchett

Caleb Hatchett

Podcast Host

Caleb Hatchett

Caleb Hatchett

Podcast Host

Follow Us

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